The Republican Party’s NPC Problem — and Ours | The Ezra Klein Show

Concepts

Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

Transcript

0:00

a few years back the online right became

0:02

enamored of a new epithet for liberals

0:04

NPC short for non-player character

0:07

non-playable non-player character you

0:09

don't know about this do I get to tell

0:10

you the NPC meem this is the most

0:12

important me of our lifetime the term

0:14

was lifted from video games where an NPC

0:16

refers to the computer controlled

0:17

characters that populate the game while

0:19

you the live player make actual

0:22

decisions NPCs don't have minds of their

0:24

own they don't have agency they're

0:27

automatons you might have seen these

0:30

memes featureless gray Faces Sometimes

0:32

surrounded by liberal icons Elon Musk

0:35

loved posting them liberals in this

0:37

story thought what they were allowed to

0:39

think said what they were allowed to say

0:42

and once you identified it's like the

0:43

Matrix like you see aent Smith

0:46

everywhere believe all women refugees

0:49

welcome I I I anticipate that's going to

0:51

be the new NPC

0:57

download like any good insult the NPC

0:59

meme served a dual purpose it contains a

1:02

kernel of truth about its Target we

1:04

liberals can be conformists we can be

1:07

too afraid to offend we can be overly

1:09

differential to institutions we can be

1:12

cowed by the ingroup policing that we

1:14

inflict on ourselves and a little quick

1:16

to take up whatever the cause of the

1:18

moment is but the real purpose of the

1:21

NPC insult was self- congratulation the

1:24

right was full of Live players you could

1:25

see it in their willingness to offend

1:28

what is a woman can you tell me that

1:30

I'll say what I want to say and if the

1:32

consequence of that is losing money so

1:33

be it their mistrust of Institutions are

1:36

you a conspiracy

1:38

theorist um that is a perjorative

1:40

senator that's applied to me um mainly

1:44

to keep me from asking difficult

1:46

questions of powerful interest I'll say

1:49

it again do your own research their

1:51

eagerness to debate well liberals would

1:53

not even say out loud it depends on what

1:56

you mean by equality you know to shut up

1:58

and Obey I just I just reject that

1:59

completely this became part of the

2:01

trumpist rights self- defin they were

2:04

the non-conformists we are now the party

2:06

of freedom and the party of speech the

2:10

Coalition that wasn't made of

2:12

automatons in fact we are just the party

2:15

and that's what American needed Live

2:18

players and here we are in 2025 and at

2:21

this point I'm willing to concede at

2:22

least half the argument American

2:24

politics does have an NPC problem

2:27

possibly a lethal one but it's not on

2:29

the left

2:30

left I can make a generous case for a

2:34

lot of what the Trump Administration is

2:36

on some level trying to do or at least

2:38

saying they're trying to do government

2:41

is too gummed up by process and protocol

2:43

it is too hard to hire and fire in the

2:45

Civil Service even if I agree with the

2:48

goals of many Dei programs and I do many

2:51

of them don't achieve those goals some

2:53

of them make the problems they seek to

2:54

fix worse there hasn't been rigor at

2:57

looking at which is which and getting

2:58

rid of the bad ones

3:00

there is actually a good argument for

3:02

auditing USA ID we probably should

3:04

convert more of what that agency spends

3:06

to cash grants and direct public health

3:08

support and yes how the government

3:10

manages software procurement and builds

3:12

and maintains Digital Services is

3:14

hopelessly cumbersome I was saying all

3:17

this before the election too all of it

3:19

is well known including among liberals

3:22

many liberals have spent a lot of time

3:23

trying to think about how to fix these

3:24

problems and so it is a genuine failure

3:27

of Democrats that they did not put more

3:29

energ into making the government faster

3:32

and better and more responsive when they

3:34

were in

3:35

charge how the hell did the B

3:37

Administration pass $42 billion for

3:39

Broadband in 2021 let us agree in the

3:43

21st century in America high-speed

3:46

internet is not a luxury it is a

3:49

necessity and have basically nothing to

3:51

show for it by November of 2024 that is

3:54

a a Wawa station back there behind me

3:57

they recently got 733 ,000 to build an

4:01

EV charging station unfortunately all

4:04

you see right now are gas pumps though

4:06

how did they get $75 billion for

4:09

electric vehicle Chargers but only build

4:10

a few hundred of them by the end of

4:12

their term it seems that everything is

4:15

going a little slower than anybody

4:17

thought why is it all so slow Democrats

4:20

became champions of a government that

4:22

often didn't work and that's part of the

4:25

reason Trump won not the only reason not

4:28

the biggest reason it's not as important

4:29

is a price of eggs but when people feel

4:32

the government isn't working the party

4:34

promising change beats a party rallying

4:36

in defense when Elon Musk says that the

4:39

election gave Republicans a mandate for

4:42

reform he's not totally wrong you

4:45

couldn't ask for a stronger mandate from

4:47

from the public to have a majority of

4:48

the public vote voting for president

4:50

Trump uh we won the house we won the

4:54

Senate um the people voted for major

4:59

government reform won there should be no

5:01

doubt about that but look at how musk

5:03

justifies that mandate the proof is that

5:06

Republicans control the house and the

5:09

Senate so why not write some bills sure

5:12

Republican majorities are narrow but by

5:14

partisanship here it wasn't out of the

5:16

question Democrats were defeated and

5:18

ready to deal their own voters wanted

5:20

them to deal a January poll by CBS and

5:23

Yuga found that 54% of Democrats wanted

5:26

their Congressional representatives to

5:28

work with the Trump administ ation one

5:30

month later February and now 65% want

5:34

all out opposition that is a lot of

5:37

political Capital the Trump

5:38

Administration burnt in just one month

5:42

and for what I've covered Washington for

5:45

decades now there's gray in the spirit

5:48

if this was about policy Trump and his

5:51

team would have gone through Congress

5:53

they could have crafted much larger

5:55

reforms using a wider set of powers and

5:58

they wouldn't be facing down the court

5:59

in the way they are now what they wanted

6:02

wasn't policy they didn't want to go

6:04

line by line through usaid and figure

6:06

out what worked and what didn't they

6:08

didn't want to think through new Civil

6:10

Service regulations balancing ethics and

6:12

Independence and responsiveness what

6:14

they wanted was power what Donald Trump

6:17

wanted was power and so they're trying

6:20

to remake our system of government not

6:21

our laws and they've identified a weak

6:24

point in the system and now they're

6:26

trying to drive a flaming cyber truck

6:28

through it that weak point is Congress

6:31

and the reason the Trump Administration

6:33

might succeed in taking congress's power

6:36

is that they have turned Congressional

6:37

Republicans into

6:40

NPCs the vulnerability in the system

6:42

here goes way back in Federal's 51 James

6:46

Madison set out the challenge he and his

6:47

colleagues faced in writing the

6:49

Constitution he said in framing a

6:52

government which is to be administered

6:54

by men over men the great difficulty

6:57

lies in this you must first enable the

6:59

the government to control the Govern and

7:01

the next place oblig it to control

7:04

itself so how does a government control

7:07

itself the Founder's idea was that it

7:10

controls itself through internal

7:11

competition between independent branches

7:14

Each of which wants to protect its own

7:17

power ambition must be made to

7:19

counteract ambition Madison wrote but

7:22

one branch was unquestionably designed

7:24

to be stronger than the

7:27

others Congress controls the money

7:29

Congress can overturn presidential vetos

7:32

Congress can impeach federal judges

7:34

cabinet officers and the president why

7:37

was Congress made so strong because

7:39

Congress reflects a second and in some

7:41

ways the more important and enduring

7:43

form of fracture the founders imagine

7:46

our political system was designed to

7:48

fracture Power by Place senators are

7:51

elected by States the house is sliced up

7:53

into geographically bound

7:56

districts that ultimately is what

7:58

members of Congress are supposed to

7:59

represent the particular needs of a

8:01

particular group of Voters in a

8:03

particular place and so power would be

8:06

fractured it can never nationalize into

8:09

just one force the framers of the

8:12

Constitution got a lot right but they

8:14

got a lot wrong and one of the big

8:17

things they got wrong was visible almost

8:19

immediately the founders imagined a

8:21

political system free of political

8:24

parties but for much of American History

8:27

their second assumption held geography

8:30

kept American politics fractured it kept

8:32

power fractured because it kept

8:34

America's political parties

8:36

fractured yes we've had Republicans and

8:39

democrats for a long time but in the

8:41

20th century that two-party system was

8:44

really a four-party system the Democrats

8:46

were split between the Liberals we know

8:48

today and the southern dixy crats a sort

8:51

of internal party whose primary goal was

8:53

upholding

8:54

segregation the Republicans were split

8:56

between conservatives as we know them

8:58

today and Norther

9:00

liberals it is astonishing from our

9:02

vantage point to really wrap your mind

9:04

around this it is true for much of the

9:06

20th century to say you were a

9:08

Republican or a Democrat didn't reveal

9:11

whether you were a liberal or

9:13

conservative in

9:15

1973 Senator Joe Biden opposed the roie

9:18

way

9:19

decision around that same time president

9:21

Richard Nixon proposed a universal

9:23

healthcare Bill and created the

9:26

Environmental Protection Agency the time

9:28

has come

9:30

for man to make his peace with nature

9:33

politics was different then the parties

9:35

were different then because parties that

9:38

contained so many different places and

9:40

ideologies could not act in lock step

9:43

and so bipartisanship was common as warm

9:45

Applause from members of both parties as

9:47

the president sets to work the Civil

9:49

Rights Act of 1964 yes it was pushed by

9:52

a Democratic president but Congressional

9:54

Republicans were crucial to its passage

9:56

souvenirs go to Republican leader Edward

9:58

durksen

9:59

and Democratic wh hbert

10:02

Humphrey when Nixon was refusing to

10:05

spend money that Congress had

10:06

appropriated a policy known as

10:08

impoundment Congress acted to protect

10:10

its power Republicans and Democrats

10:13

alike the Congressional budget and

10:15

impoundment Control Act of 1974 passed a

10:17

house with only six no votes only six it

10:21

passed the Senate without a single vote

10:23

in opposition when Watergate began

10:25

coming to light good evening I want to

10:28

talk to you tonight from my heart it was

10:31

ultimately a delegation of congressional

10:33

Republicans that persuaded Nixon to

10:35

resign Senator Scott and I have just

10:38

concluded a visit with the president he

10:40

invited us down this afternoon to uh

10:44

disclose to him what we feel the actual

10:47

conditions in the house and the Senate

10:49

are relative to uh his

10:54

situation but that was then here in 2025

10:59

president Trump is impounding money that

11:01

Congress has appropriated in clear

11:03

Defiance of that empowerment bill that

11:05

passed nearly unanimously he's trying to

11:07

erase agencies that Congress created and

11:10

while the courts are standing in his way

11:12

Congress is doing nothing while Trump

11:15

takes away their power the reason usid

11:18

is going to cease to exist as it did

11:20

before is because it should at the end

11:23

of the day though he's got to freeze

11:25

everything in order to get his arms

11:27

around it just give him a little we

11:29

don't see this as a threat to article

11:31

one at all we see this as an active

11:33

engaged committed executive branch

11:36

Authority doing what the executive

11:38

branch should do it's

11:41

astonishing republicans in Congress

11:43

could demand that Trump cut them in they

11:44

won this election too this is their job

11:47

it is their job to write these bills

11:50

agreeing with Trump's policy aims need

11:53

not mean agreeing with his power grab

11:55

the most powerful branch of government

11:57

the branch with the power to check the

11:59

others is supine it is not that it can't

12:02

act to protect its power it's that it

12:05

will not act to protect its power this

12:07

is a non-player congress what we are

12:10

seeing is a collapse of the

12:12

Constitutional structure and the

12:14

nationalization of the two

12:16

parties if Democrats controlled Congress

12:18

right now yeah Congress would be a check

12:20

on Donald Trump since Republicans

12:22

control it it is not what matters is

12:25

which party controls it and how that

12:27

party Acts it is parties that now

12:30

compete with each other not branches

12:33

parties are institutions they can be

12:35

more or less responsible they can

12:38

themselves be a check on abuses even on

12:40

their own side I already talked about

12:42

how Republicans were a check on Nixon in

12:44

2005 President George W bush nominated

12:47

his White House councel Harriet Meyers

12:49

to the Supreme Court I asked the Senate

12:51

to review her qualifications thoroughly

12:53

and fairly and to vote on her nomination

12:56

promptly and she had to withdraw because

12:59

the Republican controlled Senate found

13:01

her unqualified and ideologically

13:04

unreliable the fact that bush wanted her

13:06

on the court that wasn't enough Congress

13:08

Republicans had their own views in 2009

13:11

President Barack Obama nominated Tom

13:13

dashel to lead the Department of Health

13:14

and Human Services Tom dashel is one of

13:17

America's foremost Healthcare experts

13:19

only to see dashel withdraw dashel who

13:22

is a former majority leader of the US

13:24

Senate was found to ow back taxes and he

13:27

thought his own nomination might failed

13:29

to make it through a senate filled with

13:31

his former colleagues but this

13:33

Republican party is no check on Trump

13:35

that's been the message of Trump's

13:37

nominations RFK Jr tulsey gabber cash

13:40

Patel Pete hegf these were tests Senate

13:43

Republicans know these nominees are

13:45

unqualified you could see it in the

13:47

hearings again let's make it very clear

13:50

for everyone here today as Secretary of

13:53

Defense will you support women

13:55

continuing to have the opportunity to

13:58

serve in combat roles as the leader of

14:01

the intelligence Community how would you

14:04

think you would be received based on

14:07

some of these P past actions to support

14:10

or even to Pardon Edward Snowden I'm a

14:12

doc convince me that you will become the

14:15

public health

14:16

Advocate but not just churn old

14:19

information so that there's never a

14:21

conclusion Senate Republicans don't want

14:23

to vote for these nominees not one of

14:26

them got into politics to confirm Robert

14:29

F Kennedy Jr who ran for president in

14:32

2023 2 years ago as a pro-choice

14:37

Democrat as Secretary of Health and

14:39

Human Services but Trump knows what he's

14:41

doing you force people into submission

14:44

early and soon it becomes a habit

14:47

Congressional Republicans have their

14:48

reasons for Bowing to him Washington is

14:51

a flame with Talk of the primary

14:53

challenges in Elon Musk will fund

14:55

against any Republican who makes trouble

14:57

for Trump all of them fear the Trump

14:58

will personally weigh in against them in

15:00

a primary what a unbelievably strange

15:03

life to rise as far as they have in

15:06

politics to wield as much power as they

15:08

could and to be as afraid as they are

15:12

the NPC critique got something right

15:14

there are real dangers to Conformity

15:17

political parties even presidential

15:19

administrations are stronger when they

15:20

can hear contrary voices musk using his

15:23

billions to scare Congressional

15:24

Republicans into supporting everything

15:26

Trump does yeah it makes Trump look

15:28

stronger now it might make him and the

15:31

country a whole lot weaker later if

15:33

those same nominees fail and he is

15:36

blamed for the disaster or if the

15:38

treasury payment system breaks and he is

15:40

blamed for the chaos in the short term

15:45

having unanimity makes you look strong

15:46

in the longterm success is what makes

15:49

you strong it would be good right now

15:52

good for their party good for the

15:53

country if Republicans displayed the

15:55

values they once claimed to prize a

15:58

willingness to defend their own side a

16:01

mistrust of institutional Authority an

16:03

eagerness to debate the questions that

16:05

those in power do not wish to see

16:07

debated but we are seeing none of that

16:11

this is the NPC problem we actually face

16:14

a non-player congress driven by

16:16

Republicans who serve Trump's Ambitions

16:18

First Congressional Republicans who have

16:20

gone quiet we are left relying on the

16:23

courts and yeah that may work but this

16:25

is not the system working it's a system

16:28

failing