This Trump Speech Was the Ultimate Loyalty Test

Concepts

Something was different about this speech. The level of baldfaced lying. The way Republicans cheered along. How uncomfortable and uncertain Democrats seemed. It was as if, watching it all, you could feel something rupturing.

My editor, Aaron Retica, joins me to talk through Trump’s fifth address to Congress.

This episode contains strong language.

Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast (https://www.nytimes.com/column/ezra-klein-podcast) . Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs (https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html) .

This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by our supervising editor, Claire Gordon. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Aman Sahota. The show’s production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.

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Transcript

0:05

from New York Times opinion this is the aser cin show

0:20

[Music]

0:31

so it is Wednesday morning March 5th last night president Donald Trump gave his first address to a joint session of

0:39

Congress in his second term you don't call the State of the Union when it is this early in a term but that's more or

0:45

less what it was and I thought it'd be good to just walk through some impressions of it with my revered editor

0:52

Aon Rea Aon welcome to the show thanks hi yeah let's plunge right into it what

0:58

did you make of this spectacle what did you REM make of the speech what were they trying to do what was he trying to

1:03

do what was happening there I felt that the first 15 minutes of the speech were

1:10

different than what came after and in an alarming way okay I

1:16

don't quite know how to describe this but I felt like you could feel something rupturing and I think I describe it as

1:23

you could feel the rules the Norms you could feel that we had broken American

1:29

politics I already and there was now nothing really governing action and so

1:35

I'd say that in a couple of different ways one way had to do with Donald Trump and the Republicans we will talk about the level

1:41

of lying Trump did in that speech the genuinely bald-faced lying the way that

1:47

speech came on the day when markets were in chaos America's momentum is back our

1:53

spirit is back our pride is back our confidence is back and the American dream is surging bigger and better

2:00

than ever before and he's out there saying it is an amazing Golden Age everything is wonderful America is

2:11

back and you have the Republican Party leaping to its feet laughing at his

2:17

every joke JD Vance just radiating Dwight from the office energy up behind

2:22

him just chuckling at every dumb joke the boss makes and then on the other side you had the Democrats who clearly

2:29

did not know how to act they do not feel this moment is normal they feel I think

2:34

accurately that Donald Trump has seized Powers the executive is not supposed to have powers that are in many cases

2:40

illegal I think he's had 20 some injunctions freezes Etc from the courts already and so they go to the speech

2:48

they had discussed not going at all but they thought that would be breaking a structure an institution a norm of

2:53

American democracy Al Green representative Al Green gets up you know shaking his Cane and yelling it Trump

2:59

does until he gets ejected very early on some of the Democrats are waving these stupid little things that look like

3:05

they're at an auction saying you know save Medicaid and you know Elon Musk is a fraud and others were just sitting

3:11

there on their hands they didn't know what to do because the rules don't work right now they don't work on the right

3:17

they don't work on the left there is a renegotiation happening but not in the sense that the two parties are talking

3:23

about it about what kind of system are we in what is okay to do within it how

3:29

do you act if you think the other side has breached those

3:35

boundaries but you don't want to burn the entire thing to the ground because you're not sure what will be left if you

3:40

do that so I thought that was the first 15 minutes we can get into what happened after that as he went on as you

3:46

described it to me a Castro esque stem Winder what did you make of it you have more well historical perspective on this

3:54

than I do I mean this is the perennial problem of trump is like how do we situate like what is this thing right

4:02

it's like on the one hand that speech is not unlike the one he made when he first

4:07

came down the escalator in 2015 right it's the same enemies the same allies

4:13

that part of it is static what really alarms me about all

4:19

of this is that the lying

4:24

is controlled in the sense that he knows what he's saying is not true the Social

4:31

Security part of it was a good example we're also identifying shocking levels of incompetence and probable fraud in

4:38

the Social Security program for our seniors and that our seniors and people

4:44

that we love rely on Believe It or Not government databases list 4.7 million

4:49

Social Security members from people aged 100 to 109 years

4:56

old there are not million and of course you're put into a ridiculous position when I have to say there are not

5:01

millions of dead people getting Social Security right 3.5 million people from

5:07

ages 140 to 149 and money is being paid

5:12

to many of them but there aren't and so why is he saying that and

5:19

he's saying it in part because he wants you to be ground down so far that you

5:26

have to listen to that and take it and a lot of it is actually about it masquerades his dominance over the

5:33

Democrats but it's really about dominance over his own party absolutely

5:38

right so what what is he doing like what's happening there I found myself thinking about how the word

5:47

lie is overly blunt for the great a we

5:54

need here there's different ways to lie and there different kinds of Lies so you brought up the the lie about Social

5:59

Security fraudulent payments this has been fact checked a lot that's a kind of lie that I think has been a Mainstay of

6:07

Republican rhetoric about government for many decades which is you take something that sounds

6:13

weird if you look at the coding in the Social Security files you will see

6:19

people at unusual levels of advanced age who appear to be active in the system

6:26

and that has to do in a technical way with the way the the software was coded a long time ago and it's hard to update

6:33

but these people aren't actually getting money but it puts you into the position of pedantically explaining the structure

6:40

of the underlying Social Security database which nobody wants to hear about but you think about what he was

6:46

doing from the very beginning so I I have the speech in front of me and it's four paragraphs in right so it's you

6:52

know he first says speaker Johnson vice president Vance thanks for being here then he says you know I was here six

6:57

weeks ago I proclaimed the dawn of the golden age of America I return to the chamber tonight is the next paragraph

7:02

our momentum is back and then he says the presidential election of November 5th was a mandate like has not been seen

7:11

in many decades we won all seven swing States giving us an electoral college

7:17

victory of 312

7:25

votes we won the popular vote by big numbers and one counties in our

7:32

[Applause]

7:40

country so in 2020 Joe Biden won six out of seven swing States and he won the

7:46

popular vote by 4.5 points to Trump's 1.5 so multiples more everybody knows

7:53

that was not a mandate that has not been seen in many decades and then Trump goes on to talk about how all of a sudden we

8:00

finally have most Americans believing the country is headed in the right direction rather than the wrong one you can go to Real Clear Politics right now

8:07

they have a polling average of this question and most Americans do not believe this in poll after poll after

8:14

poll after poll the point of these kinds of lies to me which are so easy to check

8:20

is one to sort of overwhelm the systems faculties of Truth at a certain point

8:26

you give up right this is what it means as Steve Bannon said flood the Zone with you can check a couple of Lies

8:33

if all you're doing is checking every sentence of a 2-hour speech you're going to bore your audience and yourself these

8:40

are more like what was happening when he made Sean Spicer go out in the first term and say the largest inauguration

8:46

crowd ever it is a way of cleaving reality into two and not I think actually into two separate

8:53

realities I think it is cleaving reality by loyalty these lies are loyalty tests

8:58

and they're way of getting people who accept them JD Vance with his chuckling

9:04

right behind him further and further and further into the con because once you've given so much of yourself up once you've

9:11

traded little shred of dignity after little shred of dignity once you've accepted these cruelties these outrages

9:18

things you would not have thought you would accept a couple of years before at a certain point You're In Too Deep you've gone too far you've cut yourself

9:25

off from old sources of support from old versions of your own internal ethic and your own internal self-esteem and

9:32

self-conception and now really all you have as a republican politician or

9:37

staffer is the success of Donald Trump right you you've thrown so much money into this that it really better work out

9:45

and that's what I think this lying is that it's really not about Donald Trump trying to give you a sense of the world

9:53

he knows perfectly well that people can see what is happening to the stock market they don't think on that particular day we're in a new golden age

10:00

where everything is going great what he is doing is breaking the system into

10:06

those who are loyal to him and those who are not and then those who are not can be sort of purged at least if they're on

10:11

the Republican side one by one by one by one right they can be picked off but of course it's not just a rhetorical

10:18

strategy right this flood the Zone strategy is also how they're operating government itself so getting back to

10:25

reality they have attacked I mean I can't even again it's like impossible to even say all the agencies that they' cut

10:32

SL cut people they're radically transforming the government when we were first talking about this after the

10:37

inauguration it was clear they were going to do some of this but I don't think very many people understood the full extent of what they were going to

10:44

do and that the Republicans are now having to swallow right we keep having to wait you know well one or two people

10:49

will say something about Ukraine or one or two people will say something about Medicaid by the way speaking of Steve

10:54

Bannon defending Medicaid you know your movement is in some when Steve Bannon is

11:00

like the conscience of it right how does the rhetoric of the speech correspond to

11:06

the reality they're trying to impose on the United States I think this is the

11:12

core question because it just doesn't but it does tell you something about the contradictions that they have still not

11:19

come anywhere near resolving because one thing about a speech like this I happened to have a a long day the other

11:26

day and I was flipping through HBO Max or I guess it's now called I was like what am I going to watch and the

11:31

westwing popped up and so I was like ah that might be comfort food right now nice like a the motherb bird who pre-

11:38

chews a food and then gives it to you right for for somebody into American politics and the episode I happened to

11:44

flip on was the one where they are dramatizing the making of the State of

11:51

the Union and they have this yes and this was completely random right and I

11:56

had not thought about this until this second uh making this connection but what's great about this is like you came here to hear about politics and instead

12:02

you're hearing about Ezra Klein's TV taste well you know I only kept on for eight minutes or something because it felt so discorded to the moment but the

12:09

point I'm making about it is that as I'm trying to dramatize this the reporter asking the unbelievably literal

12:14

questions when does this all begin like what are the stakes and the robow character oh it begins six weeks ago and

12:21

we get memos from everybody inside and outside of the government and we're trying to put it all together and make the budget work out and that is what

12:27

they did not do here right this was clearly not a memos from everybody let's make our agenda add up system so one

12:35

thing that I would note is that the biggest problem that they are barreling towards is they cannot at any level make

12:44

their economic promises net out so what did he promise last night he promised a

12:50

huge tax cut if I am reading the Tea Leaves of what he's saying right I would call it between four and six trillion

12:57

dollars over 10 years he's talking about no tax on tips no tax on social security right it just keeps getting bigger he's

13:03

also promising a very large increase in defense spending which Speaking of Steve Bannon Steve Bannon does not like but

13:09

not just defense spending in a normal sense he promised the construction of a golden dome I'm asking Congress to fund

13:15

a state-of-the-art golden dome missile defense shield to protect our homeland

13:21

all made in the

13:26

USA and Ronald Reagan wanted to do it long ago but the

13:31

technology just wasn't there not even close but now we have the technology it's incredible actually and other

13:38

places have they have it Israel has it other places have it and the United

13:44

States should have it too if you want to make a modern anti- projectile and drone

13:50

Shield that is going to stretch not over the sliver of land mass occupied by the

13:56

state of Israel but over the mass of land occupied by the United States of America

14:03

I have not personally costed that out but I promise you it is not cheap to do so that's a huge increase in

14:09

cost the only thing they said about what they might cut they they sort of had this Litany of things that sounded

14:15

fraudulent and sounded weird when you said them like we're making transgender mice kind of thing a bunch of this was

14:21

right like the Social Security section of that even if it isn't BS it's

14:28

just small doll amounts it's $8 million here $60 million there a grant for $1.9

14:33

billion there so there's no real money in it you can see what the House Republicans are passing and the Senate

14:40

Republicans in their budget reconciliation instructions that includes instructions that given where

14:46

in the appropriation structure it is telling the Republicans to cut is going to mean cutting hugely into Medicaid but

14:53

already a lot of Republicans saying we shouldn't do that they don't have agreement on a bunch of dimensions of

14:58

the tax bill the only thing they are saying they are doing that could raise money is tariffs

15:04

but in order to raise a significant amount of money through tariffs You' have to do two things one is you would

15:10

have to put on tariffs at a level we are not even talking about or considering right now the ones we are considering

15:15

are bad enough but you would have to put on huge tariffs and you would have to keep them on you can't use them as a

15:21

negotiating structure because if you take the tariffs off you don't get money from them and so he promised that

15:27

they're going to balance the budget it's not I think going to happen you can't make all this work at all and they're

15:34

going to do this and I think this is really important in terms of things are going to drain energy from Donald Trump

15:40

at a time when the economy is starting to Blink red so the tariffs are roiling markets consumer sentiment is down

15:47

midrange inflation expectations are up and if you just look at the survey data

15:54

companies are saying we just don't know how to invest right now because there's so much uncertainty uncertainty about

16:00

tariffs uncertainty about the economy uncertainty about tax policy so we're just not going to make any decisions at

16:06

the moment because in a year we'll know better what the situation is but that means from here to the next year things

16:13

get bad the GDP forecasting from the Atlanta fed has already begun signaling

16:18

a recession is coming which I don't know I don't know how seriously to take that but it's unusual so I don't know there was a lot

16:25

of talk about all this but when I try to compare it to the problem they're facing economically which is that the tariffs

16:31

are freaking everybody out and they can't make any of their agenda work out they don't resolve that at all and that

16:39

is one of the things a speech is supposed to do it's the president explaining how he's going to make it all

16:44

work he did a lot of trolling with the Democrats he didn't do any explaining of how to all work if the model is Victor

16:53

orbon and Hungary right in his early stages he was able to make that economy

16:58

work and get a kind of popularity from that that has been able to sustain him over time erdogan and turkey like

17:05

there's all kinds of examples of authoritarian or semi authoritarian rulers using that to deepen their rule

17:13

but I do want to talk about you mentioned the attacks on Democrats again like wokeness in the role it played

17:19

wokeness is trouble wokeness is bad it's gone it's gone and we feel so much

17:26

better for it don't we don't we feel better [Applause]

17:31

many Democrats have spent a lot of time including on this show talking about the excesses of all kinds of left stuff in

17:41

among the Democrats here's the problem that's not really what they

17:46

see they see a black General and they're like Dei you're gone they see a woman

17:53

Admiral they're like Dei you're gone so what is the attack on wokeness and how

18:00

it fits into the speech and why is he even talking about it well he's talking about it one I think they do care about

18:05

it and two I think it's good politics for them because they didn't talk about

18:11

in the terms you're talking about it here true they had a young woman up in

18:17

the gallery who I guess had been playing volleyball and there was someone born

18:24

male on the other team who had spiked the ball and and injured her right so so they're still very much on the trans

18:30

kids and sports which is in wokeness like their best wedge issue but already one the Democrats have largely

18:37

abandoned I've thought about this a fair amount as you know my position is that it would be fighting the last war in a

18:43

stupid way for Democrats to make wokeness or turning against wokeness like the center the Donald Trump and his

18:50

administration are going to engage in such unbridled cruelty to trans children

18:57

to all kinds of people the margin of society that I think the politics of

19:02

this are are going to change we're not going to call it wokeness next time we're going to call it like decency but

19:08

I am not for some huge reversal of the ethic on this I don't know though that I

19:14

totally agree with the thing you just said not in the sense that I don't think Trump people always say Trump wants to

19:20

bring back traditional hierarchies and it's true in a way but it's also it's a

19:27

much older traditional hierarchy than I think the one they mean this this is maybe the thing that that I've had trouble articulating about it Donald

19:33

Trump doesn't want the America of the 1950s his chief of staff is a woman his

19:39

Secretary of Homeland Security is a woman his attorney general is a woman

19:44

he's not against women Admirals what he cares about is loyalty the hierarchy he

19:50

wants is the hierarchy of the clan with the chief the big man Chief at the top

19:56

and what matters is the tribute you pay to the Chief and I actually don't really think Donald Trump cares if you're

20:02

paying that tribute I think he's perfectly happy to have you pay that tribute if you're white if you are black if you are a woman if you are

20:10

male I am not saying he doesn't have retrograde views on all kinds of things I'm not saying he's not a racist because

20:16

I think at a at a core level he is I thought it was incredibly shitty when he he had this

20:21

little crack about loto who even knows where that is nobody knows where that is $8 million to promote lgbtqi

20:29

Plus in the African nation of Leo which nobody has ever heard of $60 million I

20:36

mean the guy just isn't a good person and I'm not saying among some of the other people around him like Elon Musk

20:43

who grew up in South Africa and seems to view the Way South Africa changed and

20:50

did the end of Apartheid and and the role of Afric coners in in modern South African life is some sort of terrible mistake you need to keep from happening

20:56

in America so I'm not saying inside his movement there isn't a lot of that but what Trump wants he had this whole

21:02

section of the speech where he talks about Merit and we're going to get the best people and it's actually worth

21:08

playing it we believe that whether you are a doctor an accountant a lawyer or an heir traffic

21:15

controller you should be hired and promoted based on skill and competence

21:20

not race or gender very

21:27

important you should be hired based on Merit and the Supreme

21:33

Court in A Brave and very powerful decision has allowed us to do so thank

21:38

you thank you very much thank you think about that section of the speech and

21:44

then think about who he is named to his cabinet RFK Jr Tulsi gabard this is not

21:53

a cabinet built on Merit this is a cabinet built on loyalty and trans

21:58

action to the chief the hierarchy of this entire thing is about your relationship to Donald Trump cash Patel

22:06

of every person you could find in the country cash Patel and Dan benino are your most

22:13

meritorious picks to lead the Federal Bureau of Investigation nobody buys that

22:19

they are your loyalists that is the hierarchy he wants it is just a hierarchy with him on top I

22:26

think he's quite flexible about who is on bottom so long as they are bringing him enough gifts I want to push back on

22:31

that a little bit because to me the Trump obsession with hierarchy and gold

22:39

and class that way of looking at the world right what they want is a world where

22:45

people know their place and don't step out of it but the obsession with Purity

22:51

right which we even know he has at the level of germs when you have a person

22:56

talking about immigrants poison the blood of the country as he famously did during the campaign when you have this

23:03

hierarchy mixed with the Purity very bad things can come from that so let me put it this way right you

23:10

have going back to this idea of the split screen right you have real America fake America Real Americans fake

23:17

Americans real men fake Men Real Women fake women uh real news fake news all

23:23

those things right so you're circling on a much smaller world and that was

23:28

evident in the speech at the end the peration at the end right they go on about you know American

23:34

Energy and the only mention of you know Native America the people who were here was his job about Elizabeth Warren and

23:42

Pocahontas do you want to keep it going for another five years yeah yeah you you would say pocah hun says

23:50

yes so I do think that there's a certain idea of America that is retrograde and its deep

23:58

IST sense that they're trying to restore that's not accepting of the expansion of

24:04

rights that began in the 60s and the 70s well I'm not here to argue that they are accepting of the expansion of Rights and

24:09

so not where that expansion of the moral Circle has gone I've been

24:17

obsessed on this show with this idea of what are the rules of this system of

24:24

this presidency of this regime that are being expressed that was sort of my first audio essay starting with the the

24:31

inauguration I think Democrats want to

24:36

create a simplified version of this that they are more comfortable with but that keeps fouling them up it would be easier

24:43

for them if Donald Trump's view was just white people good and everybody else bad

24:50

and that was sort of the view Democrats had of him in 2017 and then in 2020 and in 2024 his

24:57

Coalition became much more m racial and that's been a real problem for Democrats

25:02

even knowing how to talk about it because they want to say the thing they were saying about him in 2017 and yet they're losing the support

25:08

of multi-racial Voters as they say that more and more loudly or another example

25:14

Donald Trump's hatred apparent hatred certainly his distaste of Mexican and and and Latin

25:21

American immigrants seem to fit into this and his tendency to bully Mexico

25:27

seem to fit into into this and maybe even China too but okay he actually hates Canada clearly exactly as much or

25:35

maybe more than Mexico and it's not because Canada does not have enough

25:40

white people for Donald Trump's taste it's because Canada is disloyal it's because Canada is a different regime

25:47

Trump has much more Affinity as best I can tell for she than anybody who leads

25:53

a government in Europe aside from Victor Orban and I do think the rules expressed

25:59

in this presidency they're not more complex than we want to go back to the racial and

26:05

gender hierarchies of the 1950s but they are not actually that they are rules

26:11

about loyalty and ideological affinity and they are rules about

26:17

tribute and what he has created is a way that you can be inside of his Coalition I think it'd be very hard to be trans

26:23

and be inside of his Coalition but I don't think it's very hard to be Hispanic and be inside of his Coalition many people are doing it

26:28

right he is trying to save Eric Adams in New York Eric Adams is a black Democrat

26:34

but as long as Eric Adams will pledge loyalty to Donald Trump he can be put into Donald Trump's pocket and become an

26:41

ally rather than an enemy it is not that it is not an incredibly retrograde

26:47

hierarchy but it is more of a Royal Court which I think is worse than it is

26:54

1950s or 1970s America now there are people around him you know the Bronze Age

27:00

pervert world of Republican uh or conservative or Maga policy thinking

27:06

there are all kinds of racist who attach themselves to Donald Trump white supremacists Etc it's a coalition that

27:14

stretches at this point and a lot is being pasted on to him but his rules I

27:20

think have to do with loyalty [Music]

27:31

[Music]

27:43

[Music] dominance was a central theme of the

27:51

speech it's been a central theme since they came back into power in January can we talk a little bit about that part of

27:58

right so there's dominance over the people within your clan but we're also now talking about as he said in the

28:04

inaugural speech expanding the territory of the United States and he brought it

28:10

up again last night going to retake the Panama Canal there was a bizarre section

28:16

about Greenland and I also have a message tonight for the incredible people of

28:22

Greenland we strongly support your right to determine your own future

28:28

and if you choose we welcome you into the United States of America we need Greenland for National Security and even

28:35

International Security and we're working with everybody involved to try and get it but we need it really for

28:41

international World security and I think we're going to get it one way or the other we're going to

28:48

get it we will keep you safe so how do they

28:54

use this rhetoric and make it reality right they're doing it in some ways right even the

29:00

ridiculous contemp about the Gulf of America and the Gulf of Mexico right ended up having real world consequences

29:06

for the Associated Press right because they wouldn't tow the line and now

29:11

they're out I think that Donald Trump and the

29:16

people around him believe I think the simplest way to put this is they believe the

29:22

culture of American politics has become weak probably

29:29

feminized soft restrained I think the soaring danuma of

29:36

the speech at the end really got at this like what what did Trump ultimately say he is going to try to do here he said

29:42

and we are going to forge the freest most advanced most dynamic and most

29:48

dominant civilization ever to exist on the face of this Earth You did not hear George W bush say that the

29:56

intention of his democracy promotion around the world was that America would be the most dominant

30:02

Nation the world has ever seen nor was that the vision of Ronald Reagan at least not in the way it was spoken

30:09

about they think we gave up the

30:15

expansionist muscular violent Frontier spirit that

30:21

once made this country great I do believe this is a way the meaning of

30:27

Donald Trump is ch changed from his first term to his second I do think in his first term make America great if you

30:35

had to pick a year you might say 59 1959 right when were we great

30:42

1959 1983 right I could see something like that I think now it's something

30:47

like the late 1800s I mean you you have a more studied historical perspective than than I when

30:54

you listen to this what do you think is the era in his head when was I think

31:00

they believe there was a moment when the American Spirit was greated yeah I mean I think it's a

31:05

cross between the Andrew Jackson that he supposedly idolized in the first

31:11

Administration and as everyone's been saying including him and he mentioned it again last night William McKinley and

31:18

likewise I renamed for a great President William McKinley Mount McKinley again

31:29

beautiful Alaska I love Alaska who could he hear all this would be surprised to

31:35

find himself as the center of the movement of anything but what is the fusion between those two things right

31:40

it's domination over the environment which we haven't talked about but that's a huge part of what they want to right

31:46

we're going to drill baby drill we're going to have gas we're going to cut all the timber right and that's part of that Frontier spirit that you're talking

31:52

about we're just going to cut the trees down you have in Jackson's case the or

31:59

case of the president defying the Supreme Court and Jackson of course he

32:06

didn't fully not do what the Supreme Court said but he basically did ignore them and hence the Trail of Tears so I

32:14

think it's some kind of mixture of the Jacksonian Democracy right and he always makes his little gestures toward that

32:20

and this McKinley idea that you protect America with tariffs which then allows

32:26

you to build up your dominance there was a lot of chatter about the return of manufacturing to the United States and

32:32

those two things I do think it's a 19th century model for sure I think what's interesting about it is it it's a 19th

32:39

century model in what is nevertheless a 21 century world right one of the more

32:46

substantive parts of the speech was about Taiwan semiconductors investments in America and just yesterday Taiwan

32:53

semiconductor the biggest in the world most powerful in the world has has a tremendous amount 97% of the market

33:02

announced a $165 billion investment to build the most powerful chips on earth right here

33:08

in the [Applause]

33:15

USA and we're not giving them any money your chips Act is a horrible horrible

33:21

thing we give hundreds of billions of dollars and it doesn't mean a thing they take our money and they don't spend it

33:28

all that meant to them we giving them no money all that was important to them was

33:33

they didn't want to pay the Tariff so they came and their building and many other companies are coming we don't have

33:38

to give them money we just want to protect our businesses and our people and they will come because they won't

33:44

have to pay tariffs if they build in America so it's very amazing you should get rid of the chip act and whatever is

33:51

left over Mr Speaker you should use it to reduce debt or any other reason want

33:59

to so I think a couple of things are interesting here the chips Act was a very very bipartisan bill and the major

34:06

thing it does is it puts money into pulling in groups like the Taiwan

34:12

semiconductor Manufacturing Corporation to build highly Advanced semiconductor manufacturing facilities in America and

34:19

they've been working on this for years they're working on it not only because of American subsidies but also because

34:25

they are afraid if China and NEX is Taiwan they're not going to have any production facilities anymore and

34:31

that'll be the end of that but Trump's view that we don't have to give them money we just want to give them tariffs

34:38

they will just come here because of the tariffs because they want that access to our Market I think it's worth thinking

34:44

about why that would or would not work the thing is if you put tariffs on

34:49

everything the supply chains for advanced semiconductors they're maybe the most complex Supply chains on Earth and

34:56

there's things like these lithograph machines that are only made by this one Dutch company but there's a million

35:01

things they are incredibly intricate and they're sourced from all over the world

35:07

semiconductors are not a Marvel of one machine they are Marvel of Global Supply

35:12

chains and Global Talent if locating in America means that

35:18

every single intermediate or basic good you have to Source from outside America

35:25

is 10 to 15 to 20 to maybe 50% more expensive because it

35:31

is getting tariffed sometimes multiple times I've done a lot of writing on this

35:37

we've had shows on this if you do tariffs you make it much more expensive

35:42

to produce semi conductors in America than in Canada then in the UK then in

35:50

South Korea we lost the semiconductor industry because it became much more

35:55

expensive to produce semiconductors in America than elsewhere so there's a reason you're subsidizing you're trying to build a new industry or an industry

36:02

that is not new but one that we've lost the reason you would do subsidies and not just tariffs aside from the fact

36:08

that tariffs are a tax your own people are paying is that you want to make this a best place there is to build very

36:16

Advanced things and building very Advanced things in the 21st century requires working with Global Supply

36:23

chains it is not a thing that you can change and it's definitely not a thing even if you can change it that you can change in one or two even three or four

36:30

years they have a theory and then there is this world that is just a different

36:35

world than McKinley or Jackson had and that was what was so striking to me about the day on which a speech happened

36:41

this was a day on which the world was acting back on America you could see reality was imposing itself reality was

36:47

imposing itself you could see it in the markets you could see it in things that different firms were saying about what they were or weren't going to do you

36:54

could see it in other countries beginning to add reciprocal onto us and

37:00

we're about to get this collision between this very old school mercantilist philosophy that whatever

37:06

you think about it in the 19th century the 19th century did not have the economic structure of

37:13

2025 so now they're applying that philosophy to this era and I guess just hoping they could

37:21

dominate the world into abiding by the way they would like to look at it but I

37:27

don't think it has that structure no matter what you want it to have speaking of reality not having the

37:36

structure that you wanted to have I do want to talk for a minute about the one Democrat he apparently likes and that's

37:43

Robert Kennedy Jr Robert Kennedy Jr it's all connected to this like pro- system

37:50

anti-stem idea right I mean you in defending semiconductors right again you

37:55

have to explain there long chain of explanation to show what Supply chains

38:01

are and in Kennedy he is in some ways the perfect embodiment of this whole

38:07

thing because it's the rejection of expertise on the one hand and the rejection of government and destruction

38:13

all this so do you think he can bring in like everyone who's against the system

38:19

so even these moms who are against vaccines and is there a way for him to make that a coherent way of dominating

38:26

America and ating the world yeah but let me say two things about this because I think Kennedy does and does not

38:32

represent that and this goes back to our conversation about wokeness and hierarchies what Kennedy fundamentally

38:38

represents is not Donald Trump's Embrace or rejection of any particular system of

38:44

theories about public health RFK Jr bent the need to Donald Trump endorsed him

38:51

brought in voters of value to Donald Trump and now he gets paid back he has

38:56

been given a Duke's Lance and Donald Trump doesn't really

39:02

care what he does with him but I don't think you can look across the appointments and say Donald Trump has adopted this Maha view of Health what

39:10

does Robert of Kenny Jr hate more than anything in the world possibly not vaccines it's seed oils that dude hates

39:16

seed oils who is the chief of staff at the department of a under Donald Trump a for seed oil

39:22

lobbyist Trump doesn't care doesn't know doesn't care he supported operation warp

39:29

speed when he was president because it seemed like the thing to do then the politics shifted and the people who were

39:35

paying him fty were anti vaccines so he agreed to that and now RFK Juno is going to solve autism despite the fact that

39:41

the guy is clinging to endless amounts of completely discredited research on autism now that it is true I think that

39:49

there's an overall ethos an anti-stem but more I would say it's like a

39:55

counterrevolutionary ethos and what they are going to do is try to build their own system they don't just

40:01

hate the system they want to own the thing and they don't want to decentralize power they want to

40:06

centralize power but under them they don't want it to be the case that American policies are not tilted towards

40:12

the rich they just want to be controlling the tax cuts so I always I I bristle a little bit not when you say it

40:18

because I've said it a million times I do think for a lot of people this split feels like Pro System

40:24

anti-stem but this is just a different set of Elites in the system I was talking about this ABS I was talking

40:29

about this with Martin G that he has a sort of Revolt of the public there I was like no this is a Revolt of Elites you cannot tell me that Mark Andre the

40:37

founder of the web browser and then the head of a16z one of the biggest Venture Capital firms in Silicon Valley and one

40:44

of the biggest names in Tech forever and Elon Musk the richest man in the world who has built multiple companies on the

40:50

back of federal subsidies that these people are not part of the system they are part of the system they just want to

40:56

take it for themselves they don't like how much power went to people they did not control and they did not like now I

41:03

do think RFK Jr Tulsi gabard the Maha thing has been significant for the Trump Coalition expanding it changing it

41:08

reshaping it the thing we're about to find out as again Trump's policies his

41:15

administration comes into contact with reality and things like potentially bird flu and outbreak in Texas and the measel

41:22

outbreak he might in two years in four years make a lot of people yearn for the

41:29

system realize that there were things that were working that you relied on we

41:34

could have a whole show about this but Falling outs among Elites and the manipulation of populist sentiment that

41:41

is in some ways the whole story right always whether it's any aspect of

41:46

American History like that's a big one right um but we're going to have a

41:51

gigantic experiment in which you know huge swats of the government are wrecked and we're going to slowly find out which

41:58

of those things matter the most right or maybe not slowly maybe quickly but it isn't just that people will be like okay

42:05

that system was actually better than I thought it was it's also got to be some

42:11

sort of democratic renewal and I do not mean the Democratic party here whatever

42:16

one says about how they're pushing back it's not doing enough the people who have to push back they have to come from

42:22

Civil Society they're going to have to come from if I can use this word newspapers they're going to have to come from

42:28

churches unions all that kind of stuff um even if you don't want to be part of the resistance in some sense the Trump

42:36

Administration is making it so that you don't really have a choice you may not

42:41

be interested in politics but politics unfortunately is going to be interested in you exactly I have had I think everybody in

42:48

my life who is not a trump voter come to me and complain that the Democrats don't have a message why don't they have a

42:54

message Donald Trump is just lobbing softballs at them where's their message and one thing I feel like I keep saying

43:00

on this is It's not that they don't have a message if you are actually listening

43:07

to what Brian Shotz and P Budaj jedge

43:12

and Elizabeth Warren and Amy kachar and I could sort of go down Cory

43:19

Booker are saying Chris Murphy one of them is saying actually probably the exact thing you wish Democrats were

43:25

saying what Democrats don't have is attention nobody cares what they're saying they

43:30

cannot generate attention like you saw it last night they don't get to go up to the podium I mean they had Alysa slotkin

43:37

delivering a perfectly fine response at the end but they don't get to give the State of the Union variant at the same

43:43

time as Donald Trump does they don't have they can hold up their little signs they don't get to give an answer it's

43:49

not a debate there is no traction right now for the opposition there might be soon if in Congress Republicans can't

43:56

pass the bills they to pass there might be soon because we are barreling towards what might be a government shutdown though I kind of expect Republicans are

44:02

going to pass a continuing resolution and And Delay that for a bit but until

44:07

Trump needs something from congressional Democrats people are not going to pay very much attention to Congressional

44:12

Democrats because what they want from congressional Democrats is not a message they want them to make this stop that is

44:20

what they actually want is what liberals actually are saying they want Democrats to do something that organizes Society

44:27

and makes a stop and elected Democrats don't have the power to do that they could shut down the Senate but then the

44:33

Republicans could just vote to change the rules that would be the end of you know even that Democratic power in the Senate look Donald Trump is not popular

44:41

he is less popular than Joe Biden was at this point in his presidency by a lot he won the popular vote by Less in 2024

44:47

than Hillary Clinton won it in 2016 he doesn't need to be popular because he's one and he's not running

44:53

for reelection probably given you know unless they're able to change the Constitution which I'm I doubt despite

44:59

some mutterings to the contrary this is not a political jugrnaut the problem is there's no

45:05

leverage on them aside from in the courts there's nothing they need at the moment Donald Trump could have come in

45:12

and tried to get bipartisan support on big spending cuts on government reform it was all possible to do he didn't do

45:18

it that little riff he gave last night about how Democrats would never cheer for him and once again I look at the

45:25

Democrats in front of me and I realize there is absolutely nothing I can say to

45:30

make them happy or to make them stand or smile or applaud nothing I can do I

45:37

could find a cure to the most devastating disease a disease that would

45:43

wipe out entire nations or announce the answers to the greatest economy in

45:49

history or the stoage of crime to the lowest levels ever recorded and these

45:55

people sitting right here will not clap will not stand and certainly will not cheer for these

46:02

astronomical achievements they won't do it no matter what five five times I've

46:07

been up here it's very sad and it just shouldn't be this

46:14

way it came two sentences after he said that Joe Biden was the worst president in the history of the United States he

46:20

doesn't want them to cheer for him he doesn't want to work with them Rano wanted to work with do a number of

46:27

Congressional Democrats said they would work with Doge they never got the call because Doge does not want to work with them right now the Democratic opposition

46:36

elected opposition doesn't have leverage and if there's anything that matters in

46:42

the Trump era it's leverage and so as you say it's going to be civil society

46:47

and it's also going to be the world acting back upon Trump people feeling effects people being upset not just

46:53

about the price of eggs but about measel outbreaks about what's happened to their 401 K about the economy potentially falling into recession about the sense

47:01

of Cruelty and at some point Republicans and Congress are going to start looking

47:06

forward to an election and begin realizing they're going to get annihilated if they don't begin to

47:12

create some distance right the fact that Republicans in the house are telling each other to stop doing Town Halls is very telling just amazing just amazing

47:19

so I wish I had like a good answer to this I don't think there's a answer to this right now that is satisfying I mean

47:26

it would be good if more people were out in the streets I think but aside from that there is not a power center in

47:34

American life that is built around liberal values and that can stop what

47:41

this is it is going to be the collision between what this is and reality itself

47:48

that matters okay well that seems like a good place for us to wrap it up Ezra

47:54

thanks a lot for coming out Aaron always a pleasure even in dark

48:01

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48:20

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48:27

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